Posts by Trevor Scott

47

Why the hey did we not WALK away in 1995?? the gen. thing

by oompa in

jw
friends

i remember arguing with a bethel elder friend of mine during a long ride to an assembly about the"new light" in 1995....that the generation of 1914 is not the "this generation" that jesus referred to: .

(luke21:32)32 truly i say to you, this generation will by no means pass away until all things occur.

yep....pretty damm simple to me for 45 years...the generation that sees all the "signs" will not die before armageddon....thus we honest hearted ones pleaded with our back calls, or return visits to study with us before it is too late!....the time is soooo short, cause these 1914 folk are gettin damm old!....hurry in and be saved!.

Trevor Scott

I had been expecting a disconnect between 1914 and "this generation" for several years prior to 1995, so when it happened I wasn't surprised. What did surprise me was how all the Witnesses I knew simply took it in stride. Just more "food at the proper time"...

The 1914 generation teaching had been so core to the belief system, I had expected that even diehard dubs would be shocked awake by this change. I remember chuckling as I read the magazine thinking that the WTS had really shot themselves in the foot this time.

The fact that there was no mass exodus demonstrates just how powerful the mind control of this religion is.

At the time of the change, I reminded any JW who would listen that they had carried the FALSE "1914 generation" teaching to people as GOD'S PROMISE and GOD'S PROPHETIC WORD:

"Jehovah's prophetic word through Jesus Christ is: 'This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.' (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment." --WT, 5/15/1984, p 6-7 (note: "[of 1914]" is in the original).
"Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away." --Awake! 1/1/1995, p 2.

The WTS had effectively made liars of Jehovah and every JW knew it. The fact that this does not bother the Witnesses is proof conclusive that their loyalty is to the WATCHTOWER SOCIETY and not to God.

Trevor.

28

Keith Macgregor

by mouthy in

jw
friends

is needing your prayers ,good wishes, karma,he has had a heart attack.. if you have ever used macgregor ministries, he is lori's husband .

Trevor Scott

Wow. So sorry to hear this. I met Keith once a few years ago when I was more active in the xjw movement. He is an exceptional person, as is Lori. Please give them both my best.

Trevor Scott.

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

Trevor Scott

reniaa,

To those who are experienced in dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses, it is clear that you are avoiding topics and not persons.

It's obvious at this point that you are comfortable following liars and false prophets. You probably reason that 'since they are Jehovah's Organization (tm), it's ok that they lie and falsely prophecy', all the while failing to recognize that it is those very lies and false prophecies that prove conclusively that they are not and can not possibly be God's organization.

Such reasoning is known as 'circular reasoning', by the way, and it's a logical fallacy employed on a consistent basis by the WTS.

All the best to you reniaa. You've demonstrated that you can not or will not respond to the 'hard questions' so I see no point in continuing with this discussion. I do hope that you come to terms with the true nature of the organization you are following. But, well, I won't hold my breath. :)

TS,

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

Trevor Scott

Reniaa,

In light of Deut 18:20-22, I am still waiting for you to justify your WT leaders proclaiming their false prophecy as "the Creator's promise" and "Jehovah's prophetic word":

"...the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away."

"Jehovah's prophetic word through Jesus Christ is: 'This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.' (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment." --WT 5/15 1984 p6 (note, "[of 1914]" is in the original text)

The leaders of this cult attributed their false prophecy directly to God; they said their false prophecy was HIS WORD and HIS PROMISE. Consider also that these statements were made in print and delivered to MILLIONS of people around the world. In other words, your cult leaders told millions of people around the world that God PROMISED something that he did not promise. And they did this repeatedly for many years.

In case you don't have your nwt handy, here's Deut 18:20-22: "However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: 'How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?' When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him."

I await your reply.

TS

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

Trevor Scott

Are Jw's wrong because they got a few dates wrong?

LOL. Someone is in denial..

Forget about the fact that they got MANY dates wrong (all the while professing to be God's channel of communication, mind you) and focus on the fact that they attributed their FALSE PROPHECY to God:

"...the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away."

Here's another:

"Jehovah's prophetic word through Jesus Christ is: 'This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.' (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment." --WT 5/15 1984 p6 (note, "[of 1914]" is in the original text)

Considering the fact that your cult leaders have since acknowledged their '1914 generation' doctrine to be FALSE, please tell me how "Jehovah" might feel about them attributing their lies to Him:

"However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: 'How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?' When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him." (Deut. 18:20-22, NWT)

TS

41

Blood taking...is it a disfellowshipping offence or up to conscience.

by Gill in

jw
friends

can you tell me whether the taking of blood is a conscience matter or a disfellowshipping matter?.

i ask this because i have just come away from a heated discussion with my parents and they insist that taking blood or blood products has always been a matter of conscience and no one has ever been disfellowshipped for taking blood.

they say that a question was raised at the service meeting over the new blood card/documents whether taking blood fractions was breaking gods law and the presiding overseer j.h said that taking blood has always been a conscience matter and never was anyone disfellowshipped for it.. is this true?

Trevor Scott

they insist that taking blood or blood products has always been a matter of conscience and no one has EVER been disfellowshipped for taking blood.

Not true at all. The Society has softened their stance on blood in recent years and they would love nothing more than for the world at large to conveniently forget about their previous total ban on blood:

Is it wrong to sustain life by infusions of blood or plasma or red cells or the various blood fractions? Yes! ... regardless of whether it is whole blood or a blood fraction, whether it is blood taken from one's own body or that taken from someone else, whether it is administrated as a transfusion or an injection, the divine law applies. --The Watchtower 09/15/1961 p. 557-559

TS.

3

The truth? I don't think so...

by Trevor Scott in

jw
friends

hey there,.

was doing a little research for a paper i am writing and came across this statement on the wt cd:*** w75 6/15 361 stability even though nations shake ***.

in 1914 the time came for christ to accept invisible kingdom power over the world.

Trevor Scott

And the fact that the average Witness doesn't have access to the older publications doesn't help either. Not that the average Witness would ever think of actually checking up on the Society's claims...

Trevor.

3

The truth? I don't think so...

by Trevor Scott in

jw
friends

hey there,.

was doing a little research for a paper i am writing and came across this statement on the wt cd:*** w75 6/15 361 stability even though nations shake ***.

in 1914 the time came for christ to accept invisible kingdom power over the world.

Trevor Scott

Hey there,

Was doing a little research for a paper I am writing and came across this statement on the WT CD:

*** w75 6/15 361 Stability even Though Nations Shake ***
In 1914 the time came for Christ to accept invisible Kingdom power over the world. (Dan. 4:32) This fact was widely announced by Christians at that time.

As some of you will no doubt immediately recognize, this statement is a bald-faced lie! In 1914, JWs were still 'announcing' that Christ had accepted invisible Kingdom power in 1878 - not 1914. As I recall, the WTS held this view until the 1930s.

Check it out in some publications from the era:

Since that time it has been emphatically manifest that the time had come in A.D. 1878 when kingly judgment should begin at the house of God. It is here that 'Rev. 14:14-20' applies, and our Lord is brought to view as the Reaper crowned. The year A.D. 1878, being the parallel of his assuming power and authority in the type, clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord--the time of his taking to himself his great power to reign, which in the prophecy is closely associated with the resurrection of his faithful, and the beginning of the trouble and wrath upon the nations. --The Time Is At Hand, 1907, page 239.

Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874, AD, according to the testimony of the prophets, to those who have ears to hear it: and the formal inauguration of his kingly office dates from April 1878, AD: and the first work of the Kingdom, as shown by our Lord, in his parables and prophecy (the gathering of "his elect") is now in progress. --The Battle of Armageddon, 1913, page 621-622.

The WTS all too frequently resorts to this tactic of outright lying to support their claim to being God's prophet and watchman on the 1914 scene.

Regards,

TS.

6

need information about UN

by faithful in

jw
friends

just joined forum - curious about a posting i read about the un.

what are you talking about witnesses being part of the un?

can anyone help me?

Trevor Scott

Some years ago the WT aligned themselves with the UN as a non-governmental organization. This was done in the same manner as the other religions of the world. In forming this relationship, the WTS agreed to support the UN and encourage others to do so. The Society went so far as to publish pro-UN information in their magazines (part of the requirement for joining). Much information on the Society's relationship with the UN has been compiled and is available here: http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm

Regards,

Trevor.

33

Depressed and doubting...

by dura-luxe in

jw
friends

i've been out for 8 years, and for the first time in my life i am doubting.. not big doubts, but little ones.

it's all the middle east and the "peace and security" talk.

i feel like armageddon is coming.. the brainwashing never ends.

Trevor Scott

One thing I would like to add, sort of a pet peeve of mine :)

"Peace and Security" per 1 Thess comes from the BIBLE, not the JWs. Those of us who have come out of the WTS have difficulty making the differentiation sometimes, but when you stop and think about it, why should talk of peace and security send anyone to the JWs? They didn't write the verse. If anything it should perhaps make one consider scripture or maybe Christian religion in general. No need to run to a petty little religion that latches onto every doomsday verse they can find...

Just my two cents,

Later,

PS - For what it is worth, I have been out for 4 years or so; studied the WTS and Christianity *extensively*. In the past four years of my life I have doubted every aspect of my existence EXCEPT the validity of the Watchtower Society. They are a fraud, plain and simple.